tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post8102487911380911756..comments2023-07-17T11:55:51.363+02:00Comments on ObservingGreece: A Fraudulent Executioner Of The Greek People?kleinguthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comBlogger147125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-12022966048267847412016-11-08T12:20:48.830+01:002016-11-08T12:20:48.830+01:00@ Urs.
Yes, sorry, point taken. Arrivals are never...@ Urs.<br />Yes, sorry, point taken. Arrivals are never the less a poor metric for income. As I mentioned, we don't know yet how bad it's going to be but my gut feeling is bad. This years Athens arrivals were boosted by cruise ships, with short notice, changing their home port to Athens from Turkish and Egyptian ports. Alas, for the same reason next seasons cruises have been planned without the eastern Mediterranean. Greece, alone, is not enough to fill out the itinerary of a cruise.<br />That does not prevent the lovely tourist minister from declaring this year a success story, she does not know (ignore?) what she has coming.<br />LennardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-13122772482773731752016-11-04T11:38:41.638+01:002016-11-04T11:38:41.638+01:00@Lennard:
The numbers you quote are not for spend...@Lennard:<br /><br />The numbers you quote are not for spending per day but for spending per trip.<br />UrsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-14577660645538553502016-10-31T14:21:55.409+01:002016-10-31T14:21:55.409+01:00The 2,2 billion EUR is just one such case out of s...The 2,2 billion EUR is just one such case out of several. ELSTAT is clean as long as EUROSTAT keep their eyes on it, what they cannot check is the underlying figures ELSTAT base their reporting on. The government(s) resort to quoting selected "statistics" from more or less official sources, all proving that everything is OK in Greece. The most important presently is the "heavy industry", the tourism. There are lots of conflicting reports and it will take awhile before we know how bad it is. One thing is sure, tourist numbers goes up, but not fast enough to compensate for the dropping number of days and spending per day. This i a long term trend but has been drowning in the Greek cries of success, spending per day has gone down for years, 2014 at EUR 609, 2015 at EUR 578 and 2016 until now at EUR 542. This is not sustainable in a country where the market is saturated if the season and/or area are not expanded. As usual in Greece it is impossible to tell how much of it is caused by tax evasion. The few people who admit that there is something wrong come up with the usual Greek solution, subsidies. The head of the tourist organization (SETE) recommend lower taxes on tourism. The governor of the Central Bank does it one better, he advocate more competition between airlines and cheaper flights, that is about as stupid as you get it. When flight passengers go up and spending down they should lower the flight prices? Nobody dares to say that it is the Greek product that has a low value, Greece is cheap, not inexpensive.<br />Nobody dares to ask why spending per day in Cyprus was EUR 958 (2014). And Greece, as usual, goes on denying and lying, the truth is just too painful?<br />Lennard Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-31270031954927696692016-10-27T06:05:42.590+02:002016-10-27T06:05:42.590+02:00I read that, it made me wonder whether the mistake...I read that, it made me wonder whether the mistake was first started by this government or if the previous ones were also reporting the figures wrongly.<br />And also if ELSTAT is making the same mistake in its reports.<br />Jerome Druesnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04566488411204989326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-71128857213384365982016-10-26T20:52:18.874+02:002016-10-26T20:52:18.874+02:00A job opportunity for Georgiou at the Finance Mini...A job opportunity for Georgiou at the Finance Ministry, perhaps?<br /><br />http://www.ekathimerini.com/213163/article/ekathimerini/business/commission-report-reveals-extra-22-billion-euros-in-state-arrearskleinguthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-50618417918736425072016-10-22T14:33:09.914+02:002016-10-22T14:33:09.914+02:00It looks to me that you are the problem.It looks to me that you are the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-83410770071568142192016-10-22T05:43:35.375+02:002016-10-22T05:43:35.375+02:00I am shocked how so many people support the notion...I am shocked how so many people support the notion that someone leaving his 20 year successful IMF career to return to Greece wanted to inflate the debt numbers. We all know that the Greek governments mismanaged the economy and piss off money to keep people happy to vote them to power. Andreas Papandreou and partly Simitis have done this with EU funds. Simitis and Karamanlis have done this with credit. There is no way you can fix a problem unless you recognise it. I think the way the George Papandreou government handled this issue was not ideal. They went to the EU and said 'we are screwed' and had no proposal/plan in place how to fix it. Add to this the fact that EU was not prepared to deal with a broken economy of one of it's members and multi country politics impacting the situation and they created a big mess. We all recognise that the situation in Greece is problematic and needs to be fixed. A lot have been done but I do not think that we are more than 20% of the way to fixing this. In the meantime, a number of politicians in Greece are indirectly screwing the country for their own benefit. The Greeks cannot digest the fact that there is no easy way out of this. People cannot accept the fact that life could not go on with getting money from the government and not paying taxes. Populists find an easy prey when promising to people an easy way out. Accusing the person who put all the numbers on paper and tried to impose discipline in the financials of the country would be similar to someone who lied to the banks, obtain tons of credit and piled up debt. Now the banks are asking for an audit of this person in order to figure out the actual situation and come up with a payment plan that will let him survive and pay back his loans. Instead, this person cries and accuses the auditor who have added all the debt and exposed him. The country needs to mature, the media need to mature and play their role in fighting corruption and exposing populist politicians lying to people. Voters need to mature and realise that the only way out of this is to get our act together (see Cyprus). The politicians need to mature and start fixing the taxation system, the judicial system, the management of the government budget but that requires hard work and judgement of the results rather than accepting retirement benefits at 50 years old, getting your kid a job in the government to do absolutely nothing and expecting someone else to pay for this. The smart ones didn't even go to work and managed to get a government salary while running their business. The Georgiou's are not the problem, the politicians who are giving away money for votes are and the people who support this system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-5878955566214444252016-10-20T10:30:03.004+02:002016-10-20T10:30:03.004+02:00@Arktos:
I can’t find it on the net. But I guess t...@Arktos:<br />I can’t find it on the net. But I guess the press will cover it when it happens.<br /><br />UrsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-20725103781954655362016-10-19T20:58:29.761+02:002016-10-19T20:58:29.761+02:00Urs:
I don't know what the trial date is.
Ar...Urs:<br /><br />I don't know what the trial date is.<br /><br />Arktos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-8005731785486633442016-10-19T17:47:51.699+02:002016-10-19T17:47:51.699+02:00@Arktos
Lets hope he will meet unbiased and compet...@Arktos<br />Lets hope he will meet unbiased and competent judges there.<br />Do you know when he will have his day in court (date)?<br />Urs<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-89651513032966765162016-10-19T14:01:22.046+02:002016-10-19T14:01:22.046+02:00Humble homeowner of a tiny part of Zurich lake:
I...Humble homeowner of a tiny part of Zurich lake:<br /><br />In such case I hope phucking Georgiou gets his phucking day in court.<br /><br />Arktos (archaic form of bear or Urs in Greek)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-90410473203709924802016-10-18T17:36:57.382+02:002016-10-18T17:36:57.382+02:00@Arktos
- I do not occupy a part of Lake Zurich (m...@Arktos<br />- I do not occupy a part of Lake Zurich (mind the word order) but a humble house on the shores of Lake Zurich<br />- I thought it would be appropriate to use an archaic (you know the word) form of spelling. Look here if you don’t want to take my word for it:<br /><br />http://www.dict.cc/englisch-deutsch/phantasy.html<br /><br />Nice try.<br /><br />UrsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-53069319916689707652016-10-18T13:53:11.680+02:002016-10-18T13:53:11.680+02:00Dear occupant of part of Zurich lake:
Fantasy has...Dear occupant of part of Zurich lake:<br /><br />Fantasy has nothing to do with pharmacy. They are both Greek words used for different purposes. Therefore the newly invented word of "phantasy" we are sort of unable to comprehend its meaning.<br /><br />Signed,<br /><br />Arktos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-73230117356607576502016-10-17T21:20:38.610+02:002016-10-17T21:20:38.610+02:00@Anonymous at 2:19
You can not even quote correctl...@Anonymous at 2:19<br />You can not even quote correctly, so let me show you how it is done: <br />Quote: "The newspaper Real News quoted former Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis (New Democracy) as saying that the prosecutor’s charge “finally opens the way to deal with the case. Let there be light.”"<br />So, again, the former prime minister under whose government year after year manipulated statistics were delivered to EUSTAT has the nerve to say with regard to the trial of Georgiou: Let there be light.<br /><br />Urs<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-54062675570429735792016-10-17T21:12:21.054+02:002016-10-17T21:12:21.054+02:00It is obvious that at least those two are living i...It is obvious that at least those two are living in their own phantasy world. Let’s hope they stay there alone.<br /><br />UrsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-77945447972520232192016-10-17T21:09:58.861+02:002016-10-17T21:09:58.861+02:00@Anonymous at 5:22
"Court cases are not decid...@Anonymous at 5:22<br />"Court cases are not decided by whatever press you and others like you read. Court cases are decided by evidence."<br />Or by money or political pressure.<br />"Law is not an a la carte thingy"<br />Surely not in Greece. The whole world knows this.<br />UrsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-76655894630294782102016-10-17T19:52:42.940+02:002016-10-17T19:52:42.940+02:00At Anonymous at 2:26
Quote: "So an uber biase...At Anonymous at 2:26<br />Quote: "So an uber biased German person occupying part of Lake Zurich for Greater Germany pretending to want to have a conversation."<br /><br />OMG are you really so behind the moon or are you a Joe job (go google it) and want to paint the Greeks as utter fools? Urs is a name you hardly find in other countries than Switzerland. If you find a guy named Urs in Germany he is most probably of swiss descent. And just in case you don’t know: Zurich is a german speaking town - well sort of because our dialect sounds for most germans greek.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-23740249181870115912016-10-17T17:09:31.978+02:002016-10-17T17:09:31.978+02:00Zoe Georgantos is a true patriotic Greek and has n...Zoe Georgantos is a true patriotic Greek and has now found her real calling. She is in charge of the Ministry of Defense accounting and has inspired her boss (Flaming Kammenos) to the following statement: "And once it is proved that the statistics were falsified Greece will have no debt at all". A statement we can all agree with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-88753614262184096092016-10-17T05:22:11.851+02:002016-10-17T05:22:11.851+02:00You live in a total fantasy world Jerome.
Greek ...You live in a total fantasy world Jerome. <br /><br />Greek justice does even have to lift a finger because the decisions of the supreme court are binding and final.<br /><br />Court cases are not decided by whatever press you and others like you read. Court cases are decided by evidence. And if the evidence is against Georgiou then he will be convicted. You better get used to such simple fact.<br /><br />Otherwise it sounds like you attempting to influence the outcome something which even if you wished it it's impossible by the very nature of the public prosecutor's action. Law is not an a la carte thingy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-53657764475860093772016-10-16T18:08:56.586+02:002016-10-16T18:08:56.586+02:00@ Anonymous 2:19pm
You are mistaken. The concern ...@ Anonymous 2:19pm<br /><br />You are mistaken. The concern on Georgiou handling is precisely because he is the scapegoat from all political parties from ND to Syriza.<br />Afaik, only Giorgos Papaconstantinou and Filippos Sachinidis spoke for him.<br /><br />I have not read any article in the foreign press whih makes sense of the accusation. So if this ends with a condemnation, Greek justice will have to work double time to make this judgement credible.<br />In particular, if they don't win over Eurostat to their conclusion, foreign opinion will not buy-in the judgement<br />Jerome Druesnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04566488411204989326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-73860285992691881672016-10-16T14:26:15.378+02:002016-10-16T14:26:15.378+02:00Given Name URS. USAGE: German. PRONOUNCED: UWRS [k...Given Name URS. USAGE: German. PRONOUNCED: UWRS [key] German form of the Latin name Ursus, which meant "bear"<br /><br />So an uber biased German person occupying part of Lake Zurich for Greater Germany pretending to want to have a conversation.<br /><br />That's nice Urs. You make me want to growl as a bear in response: Grr, Grr, Grr.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-57011275036671285382016-10-16T14:19:24.454+02:002016-10-16T14:19:24.454+02:00In case you missed the message let me translate it...In case you missed the message let me translate it for you and in the process facilitate the lifting the heavy fog around Zurich.<br /><br />The people who say "let it be light" are the same people who are behind the prosecution of Georgiou. In fact they are the same people from the same party of Mitsotakis who are now you are praising as a better prospect than the present government.<br /><br />In other words, you and your sympathizers are in a total state of confusion as to how the political forces of Greece work and how deep exactly are the vested interests (primarily of ND and Pasok) which want to continue to exert control when in fact there is no longer a reason or desire by the Greek people for them to do so.<br /><br />Make sure you carry a whistle around your neck along with your Swiss Army knife in case you are lost in the thick vegetation part of the Zurich Lake and unfortunately we would have to rescue you at such point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-81377120844391611532016-10-16T10:31:58.809+02:002016-10-16T10:31:58.809+02:00@Anonymous at 5:04 PM
Just a few remarks:
- Your p...@Anonymous at 5:04 PM<br />Just a few remarks:<br />- Your piece made me laugh - so at least it did something good.<br />- Yes, people in Zurich are known for living in a fog quite contrary to those living in enlightended Hellas.<br />- When you say "We" do you mean it took more than one person to write your post? Really?<br />- Mr. Georghiou looks "as guilty as hell" because he is penniless and preferes to live in the US? Hm, doesn’t take much to look guilty in Greece. I guess I better don’t go there.<br />- Could you please be more specific regarding Mr. Georgious crimes? He is accused of manipulating the debt to GDP ratio for 2009 or 2010. So please give us the numbers you deem correct so we can discuss this issue.<br />- You ask for my faith in law (in Greece) because "the law is both patient and relentless". It would help if you could tell me when the predecessors of Mr. Georgiou - you know those who are said to have cooked the books for decades - will stand trial. <br />- I sincerely hope that your mindset is not representative for that of the common Greek or that of any person involved in the trial against Mr. Georghiou.<br /><br />UrsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-29969717519133703112016-10-15T19:25:47.840+02:002016-10-15T19:25:47.840+02:00The issue is not if the 15% produced damage, which...The issue is not if the 15% produced damage, which it did.<br />G is tried on whether he fabricated this number.<br />Will the Supreme Court declare the official deficit for 2009? <br />If not, who is responsible in Greece to declare official deficit?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-82111919145737609512016-10-15T17:32:47.096+02:002016-10-15T17:32:47.096+02:00Thanks for the article. It becomes obvious that th...Thanks for the article. It becomes obvious that the accusations are a farce and a political game when the people who cooked the books for years are now saying: Let there be light. <br /><br />UrsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com