tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post1837197397619953607..comments2023-07-17T11:55:51.363+02:00Comments on ObservingGreece: Mr. Tsipras - vote for dimiourgia, xana!kleinguthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-41820168048104060762012-06-19T11:58:26.344+02:002012-06-19T11:58:26.344+02:00Fortunately they were crushed. Not much to expect ...Fortunately they were crushed. Not much to expect from a party that, I must admit has some sane ideas, but adopts the Pangalos logic "we are all to blame" and applies liberal principles selectively to favor the parasites and not the people who actually do the work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-6946453668141034382012-06-19T11:05:45.128+02:002012-06-19T11:05:45.128+02:00And SYRIZA and Democratic left each performed far ...And SYRIZA and Democratic left each performed far better alone than when they were together. It's always and issue of alternatives, but also an issue of clarity. As a voter I want to know what I am voting for. A vote for PASOK or ND means you vote for someone with no guarantee as to what they will do. A vote for KKE, Golden Dawn, Independent Greeks and so on gives you a much better idea of what to expect from them(even if that means what they will NOT support). I know people who are quite mainstream rightwing and vote for KKE for the Europarliament for example. Why? Because they believe 99% of what the Europarliament passes is bad, so they vote for someone who is sure not to vote for these(even though for the wrong reasons)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-83553419493292975682012-06-19T08:54:56.112+02:002012-06-19T08:54:56.112+02:00Except that the troika has even insisted(and the g...Except that the troika has even insisted(and the government implemented it in Febrauary) to legalize cheating, such as the state intervening to annul often long-standing EXISTING agreements and private contracts in favor of businesses. (I mentioned this in my original comment about neo-liberal attitude). So the signs are not encouraging. And trust is not a switch that you switch on when you need and off when you do not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-10629652014630793532012-06-19T08:36:38.129+02:002012-06-19T08:36:38.129+02:00Klaus(on neo-liberals): Thanks for your analysis, ...Klaus(on neo-liberals): Thanks for your analysis, but it reminds me of the basic flaws of communism: The citizen/voter does not see/care about the virtues of the theory, but experiences first hand the effects of the implementation. It sounds very much like having a discussion on the virtues of (real/theoretical)communism.<br />But at any rate that was not my point. What I see neoliberals in Greece(like Manos and Tzimeros)<br /> bitch about how many people are public employees and all the privileges they have and so on. I never hear them speak this way about the privileges of people who(unlike many public sector employees) are say CEOs of public companies,paid insane amounts of money and bonuses, have disastrous results and are appointed there directly by the government instead of an open competition. And, especially for Mr. manos, I find it hard to take advice from someone who ruined his own company...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-80582744440248587092012-06-18T22:40:55.885+02:002012-06-18T22:40:55.885+02:00Liberals were crushed in the dilemma "Tsipras...Liberals were crushed in the dilemma "Tsipras or no Tsipras". Dimioyrxia Xana has 3-4 months of life as a party. Most Greeks don't have a clue of what it's program is about, some have never even heard of it. Since it's not already a parliament party, it had little means for pubblicity. Still, in the May 6 elections, which were more free, Dimiourgia Xana did remarkable well.<br /><br />You can't expect a crumbling political establishment to be replaced by a new one overnight. I have hope that Dimiourgia Xana will gain force in the following years. Especially after ND and SYRIZA fail. At that point, more people will turn for some other, untested solution. And Dimioyrgia Xana, i hope, will be there.<br /><br />Bandolero.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-55196912452308703622012-06-18T22:39:23.185+02:002012-06-18T22:39:23.185+02:00Dear Bandolero,
Thank you for taking the time to ...Dear Bandolero,<br /><br />Thank you for taking the time to so explicitly state your arguments. I am afraid though that you have misunderstood. I am aware that Greece has taken in many more immigrants than it should have. And of course this is a big problem that needs to be addressed. But I do not believe that under any circumstances should any person -regardless of their nationality- be treated any differently then other persons (as clearly suggested in your point made #7). You have labeled this as a position of the left, I would argue that it is simply a humane approach - I would not like being treated differently if I had to migrate to another country.<br />I do recognize the effort to provide a realistic solution to what seems to be an insolvable problem, I really do. But still, from a point of principle, I firmly believe we need to treat this as the european problem it really is, which means engage all european countries that have signed dublin ii to the solution. <br /><br />I also would have to disagree on your view that these kind of opinions have led to the blossom of Golden Dawn. Lack of quality education which leads to fear of what we do not know and do not understand has led there, in my opinion. Also a number of other factors -different per case- which would take some time to analyze.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Christine PapandreouAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-41618420343295691642012-06-18T14:08:22.549+02:002012-06-18T14:08:22.549+02:00I have to make a comment regarding the "neoli...I have to make a comment regarding the "neoliberal attitude" you quote because I feel strongly about this. It seems that neoliberalism has become the catch word for everything that is cold, despising human kind, only focusing on profits, only private and no state, etc. etc. <br /><br />Well, not quite. In the problematic political/economic climate of 1930s/1940s, thinkers revisited the subject of liberalism. These later called "neoliberals" concluded that liberalism in its original form (true laissez-faire) had led to negative consequences. An unregulated market, in the minds of those neoliberals, could/would lead to cartels, monopolies and other aberrations which would actually undermine the workings of the “market”. In the minds of neoliberals, the “market” is not something God-given. Instead, the market must be warranted by the state. Let me translate a quote which I personally find quite good: “The new liberalism, neoliberalism, which can be defended today and which we represent requires a strong state, a state beyond the interests of businesses, beyond the interests of interest groups --- a state which is way up there where it belongs”.<br /><br />What has failed in the last decades, in my opinion, was that “strong state” and not the markets. Just take financial markets: when I started in banking in the USA in the 1970s, Glass-Steagall was in place; commercial bankers didn’t have to be smart but they were supposed to be safe; investment bankers could be smart and speculate a lot but they could only do it with their own and not with other people’s money; banks were seen as intermediaries between the have’s and have-not’s of money, they were a means towards an end and not and end per se; etc. etc.<br /><br />Why politicians, first only in the USA but later in Europe just as well, yielded completely to the lobbying of financial markets is a mystery to me. Once markets are set loose, market behavior follows. Market behavior is the behavior of individuals. The first time you make a fast profit of, say, a million at the expense of someone else, you might feel a little embarrassed. Over time, it becomes habit forming and value structures collapse. The Gordon Gekko’s become the heroes (and not Paul Volcker…). The collapse of value structures promoted by unregulated markets is, in my opinion, what’s at the bottom of today’s mess. Here is more on that if you are interested.<br /><br />http://kleingut-reflections.blogspot.gr/2011/08/two-views-on-america-george-f-will.htmlkleinguthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-7902012952496621372012-06-18T09:23:31.602+02:002012-06-18T09:23:31.602+02:00As I said in my proposal, if the "Greek way o...As I said in my proposal, if the "Greek way of doing things" would set foot in an SEZ, then the project would be doomed to fail from the start. Yes, I hear what you are saying about the ingenuity of Greek entrepreneurs. But there has got to be away of assuring that, at least within an SEZ, the "domestic" Greek entrepreneurs will act the same way as Greek entrepreneurs have acted and act in the diasporas where they are extremely successful (and this not through cheating!).kleinguthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-34078400163861825642012-06-18T08:23:05.576+02:002012-06-18T08:23:05.576+02:00On SEZ: You underestimate the ingenuity of greek &...On SEZ: You underestimate the ingenuity of greek 'enterpreneurs'. We're talking about people who wrote the books on tricks. For example not paying employees for 3 years(I'm only talking about highly profitable companies during the good times) and being confident that nothing will happen to them, even if the employees complain/report to the authorities. Why? Because they have the 'connections'. It should not be at all beyond your imagination that profitable companies would shut down and reopen in SEZs, thus transforming the entire country into an SEZ. Needless to say, anyone who can then leaves the country and you're left with Syriza, KKE and Golden Dawn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-23463702635186318512012-06-18T05:52:21.369+02:002012-06-18T05:52:21.369+02:00Sadly, the "liberal coalition" of Drasi,...Sadly, the "liberal coalition" of Drasi, Dimiourgia Xana & Fileleftheri Simmachia performed far worse together than they did when they went separately at the previous elections. Reason in Greek politics is still ages away...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-80403498458732934012012-06-17T15:33:41.512+02:002012-06-17T15:33:41.512+02:00Well, the troika is also partly to blame for this:...Well, the troika is also partly to blame for this: If the troika demands and the Papademos government implements by law that the government can intervene and change/void existing PRIVATE contracts, then I can understand foreign or local investor not wanting to do anything there. It's like me buying Bayern Munchen and agreeing with the german government to pass a law to void by law existing players and coaches contracts! But at least players and coaches have UEFA to stand behind them. The rest do not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-74331984580629440002012-06-17T15:28:57.248+02:002012-06-17T15:28:57.248+02:00What powers extremists is the inability/disdain of...What powers extremists is the inability/disdain of 'moderates' to solve real problems. When old ladies are robbed and beaten up in broad daylight and sent to the hospotal with multiple fractures and the 'moderates' do nothing for over 20 years, what do you expect the people to do? In Greece there is a saying "if the baby does not cry, it gets no milk". Without calling President Bush senior an extremist, one might recall how Dukakis lost the 1988 elections to Georage Bush senior despite leading by 20 points just because of the Willie Horton case. Americans felt that Dukakis was neglecting their safety and voted accordingly. What has happened in Greece is many times worse than the Willie Horton case.<br /><br />As for Dimiourgia xana, my main objections are:<br />-adopting the Pangalos logic(we are all guilty because those who swore to defend state interests and were handsomely paid for it did not do their job, so it's verybody's fault and we, the rest should pay of it)<br />-an inconsistent neoliberal attitude, which means the state should void existing private contracts(and only respect those who in completely opaque ways make tons of money, though their results are disastrous and the people below them are much better than them<br />-I also have a fundamental problem with neoliberals: If Dimiourgia Xana thinks they are not able to profitably run monopoly companies like power and water, what on earth makes them fit for a much more complex task of running a country? In any self-respecting environment you are given a task, if you perform it well you are given a more complex one and this is how one should rise. I have a real problem with people who want to be at the helm without having accomplished anything yet(includes Mr. Tsipras of course)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-52562672623374164632012-06-17T12:25:02.114+02:002012-06-17T12:25:02.114+02:00The US IRS was here in the 1990's and left aft...The US IRS was here in the 1990's and left after 3 years. SDOE implented none of their hundreds of recommendations..Antaeus X25https://www.blogger.com/profile/12303734536425098070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-22712496582492807752012-06-17T12:23:13.337+02:002012-06-17T12:23:13.337+02:00Glad you finally found the party. They must not be...Glad you finally found the party. They must not be too active up north..Antaeus X25https://www.blogger.com/profile/12303734536425098070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-19646881218663279922012-06-16T21:30:57.615+02:002012-06-16T21:30:57.615+02:00My personal belief is that Mr Vallianatos has been...My personal belief is that Mr Vallianatos has been a liability to both parties. Half the people I know refuse to vote for dimiourgia, xana! tomorrow and didn't vote for Drasi in the previous elections because of his views on several thorny issues. I'm sure this is a trend noted by other supporters as well, therefore a problem that has to be addressed sooner rather than later....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-46653696701013089112012-06-16T21:00:34.219+02:002012-06-16T21:00:34.219+02:00On a sidenote, if tomorrow Mr. Tsipras does win, w...On a sidenote, if tomorrow Mr. Tsipras does win, with a 1% margin, he will have to send flowers to Mrs Merkel and Mr. Schauble. Their continuous interventions telling the Greeks to "not vote for Tsipras", has certainly boosted Tsipras' percentages. Every time that they or Mrs Lagarde says "don't vote Tsipras", Tsipras opens a bottle of champagne.<br /><br />Bandolero.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-71168698415346527332012-06-16T18:55:43.877+02:002012-06-16T18:55:43.877+02:00Yes, provided that the initial "blockade"...Yes, provided that the initial "blockade" of the SEZ will be forced open so that the workers can get in and become happy. The comunist party will do "pre-emptive strike", blockading it before it starts functioning. If this step is overcome, then in deed, it will become hard for them to block it.<br /><br />BandoleroAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-74611957238098394802012-06-16T18:47:10.112+02:002012-06-16T18:47:10.112+02:00I think the posts were removed by Mr. Sakkas, for ...I think the posts were removed by Mr. Sakkas, for let's say political reasons :) Concerning a thing he wrote about a certain person. If i am right, i understand why he did it. :)<br /><br />BandoleroAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-15527658101703039492012-06-16T18:44:49.699+02:002012-06-16T18:44:49.699+02:00An interesting thing to see, is how Greece was reb...An interesting thing to see, is how Greece was rebuilt after the civil war. Now, the defeated comunists, either fled the country or many were exiled. The PM of the time, Karamanlis followed a tactic of "shut up and dig". Greece started growing at very high rates, while having for 30 years no currency fluctuation, because it was pegged to the dollar (1$= 30 drachmas). And then the socialists came, eating up all the money and starting the devaluations of course, after changing the economic model to a parassitic one.<br /><br />This teaches us, that the only way Greece can return to grow, is again, with a non leftist PM that will show iron fist (not saying to exile anyone of course), will give a national target to the people and will not hesitate to clash with anyone that will stand on the way. In order to do that, first, the left must have disappointed and disillusioned the big mass of the greek population, who still seeks a new Andreas Papandreou in Tsipras, hoping that he will, like Andreas, start giving jobs in the pubblic sector and say "don't worry, it's all under control".<br /><br />A big portion of Tsipras' voters actually think that the main problem of Greece is the debt and if we write it off unilaterally, then we will go back to live like we were in 2009. They actually believe SYRIZA's economists, that Greece can survive in the eurozone, by a simple increase in taxation of private sector and tax evaders and a re-modelling of the public sectors with 100.000 more hired personnel as SYRIZA says.<br /><br />Madness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-7668939403404959412012-06-16T18:44:32.106+02:002012-06-16T18:44:32.106+02:00Again, it can become very hard for a workers' ...Again, it can become very hard for a workers' party to demonstrate against happy workers...kleinguthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-45886396454731890142012-06-16T18:29:59.198+02:002012-06-16T18:29:59.198+02:00SEZ would work, IF a goverment had the will to act...SEZ would work, IF a goverment had the will to actually arrest the hundred of comunist protesters that will try to block the access to it.<br /><br />This would be cause of war for the comunist party:<br /><br />"more or less free labor regulations; more or less free salary/wage negotiation between company and employees; guarantee of political risk for investments from abroad;"<br /><br />Currently, the comunist party is holding a strike on a steel factory in Greece that is going on for months (i think more than 6 months). The comunist party is paying a monthly wage of about 400 euros to the protesters so that they keep going. There are many workers that actually want to work in the factory, but the comunists won't let them it and the goverment doesn't want to have the police do something about it, since, as i said, thanks to the "junta ghost", the left in Greece can do pretty much anything in perfect impunity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-44989929836079622802012-06-16T18:25:57.236+02:002012-06-16T18:25:57.236+02:00Technically, you are absolutely correct; but there...Technically, you are absolutely correct; but there is also psychological battle. We need to get across, fast, the message that “Greeks can create”. <br /><br />I reckon, reforming the tax system radically is the best way in this direction.Nikos D. Sakkashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05160603529458083364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-25741167671451104982012-06-16T18:11:17.117+02:002012-06-16T18:11:17.117+02:00Just so you know - I didn't remove any comment...Just so you know - I didn't remove any commentary. Don't know what happened here.kleinguthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-73547751927681354552012-06-16T18:01:55.507+02:002012-06-16T18:01:55.507+02:00There would be so many things to change at once to...There would be so many things to change at once to make Greece an attractive place to do business that I doubt that they can be accomplished in a short time. No, I don't doubt; I am certain that they can't. This is why I came to the idea of Special Economic Zones. There, you wouldn't have to change anything; you would just start from scratch in the "perfect" way.<br /><br />Suppose you had one near Athens and another one near Thessaloniki, i. e. where many people and many unemployed are. If the SEZs work and if new investment/employment takes place there, the protesters would have a pretty hard case when they are protesting that several thousand previously unemployed are now happily working in new jobs and making a decent living.kleinguthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491174042954678023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5882645467378797266.post-62553536324180567922012-06-16T17:58:21.214+02:002012-06-16T17:58:21.214+02:00I am glad about Valianatos. Send him back to Georg...I am glad about Valianatos. Send him back to George Papandreou or maybe to Tsipras, since i am sure he will find more friendly ears there.<br /><br />By the way, you may want to copy the italian immigration legislation. Main things that come to my mind:<br /><br />- Bilateral agreements with all countries to re-patriate their immigrants.<br /><br />- Illegal immigration is penal crime.<br /><br />- No access to the pubblic sector for immigrants without work permit. In Italy if you want to activate a telephone line, you can't without legal papers. <br /><br />- Impossibility to open a bank account without legal papers.<br /><br />- Confiscate the houses that rent to illegal migrants.<br /><br />- Controlled and temporary immigration. Italy has been doing this for years. Do you want temporary workers in agriculture? Come to contact with a country you want, and bring in the number of workers you want with temporary permit. After they finish, back to their country. The next time you need them, the workers that behaved properly will get priority. <br /><br />- Each employer declares to his regional authority the number of immigrants he wants in his service. The region forwards the request to the central goverment, which on its turn, contacts countries of interest (in this case, you can also choose from WHICH country you prefer having them).<br /><br />You can read more here:<br /><br />http://www.governoberlusconi.it/dettaglio/406/il-pacchetto-sicurezza-voce-per-voce<br /><br />Dimioyrgia xana must digg further to find the practices that other countries have been having for over 10 years! I am SICK and tired listening on the greek tv the usual leftist saying "and who is going to collect our tomatoes"? The temporary workers will. <br /><br />Bandolero.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com